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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here are the problem areas identified on the day of the assessment. I'm sorry for the messy look. I don't know how to format it correctly with tables. I tried to add the mile markers to Google Earth, but some of the markers didn't show up at the correct locations. Either the mileage is incorrect or the software is lacking. If someone is willing to take a crack at it, please feel free to do so.

I hope we can use this thread to start our restoration strategies.


Mile Point Proposed work
0.0 Maintain adopt a trail sign
0.12 Repair fence on right
0.34 Illegal trail on left
0.4 Illegal trail on left
0.44 Illegal trail on right
0.81 Illegal trail on right
0.93 Illegal trail on intersection
1.03 Illegal trail on left
1.08 Hill climb on left
1.10 Illegal trail on right
1.57 Remove barbed wire
1.72 Check signs and gate
2.23 Off road trail to Deep Creek
2.45 Illegal trail on right
2.65 Off road trail to Deep Creek
Check all fence line
2.88 Check kiosk
3.04 Repair fence
3.89 Monitor Moss Road
4.09 Illegal trail on right
4.14 Maintain all signs
4.15 Illegal trail on left
4.89 Illegal trail on right
5.01 Illegal trail on right
5.18 Illegal trail on right
5.29 Illegal trail on right
5.37 Repair fence
5.40 Name trails
5.54 End of adoption


In addition to discussion strategies, if you have a specific expertise that you feel we can use for the AAT program, please let us know too!
 

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Tony, what you have there looks great. I think this is a good start. I posted the photos in my 2008/08/10 3N59A FJ-Piper Solo Run Report in order as they occurred on the trail. If you follow along from the signage at the 3N59A trailhead, it looks as if I had a couple more pictures of illegal trails than what you listed. Look at the photo of the trailhead, there is one right there. Unfortunately, I did not write down the mileage when I took the photos but I will be back this week as soon as my shock is fixed to do a sunset run. I can get a mileage then.

As far as repair of the trails goes. I believe we will have to make it look ugly for a short period of time to send the message that creating/using these single track trails is illegal. I suggest we use that bright orange plastic roll-up construction fencing to temporarily block 20' length areas at every illegal trail with a sign stating something to the affect of "Unautorized trail rehabilitation, Do not enter" this will give our transplanting and seeding some time to get established before the snow comes IF we move fast. We could make a considerable impact in a short period of time (6 months or so) I have seen this technique in use on other trails. Of course you are going to get those that might tear down the fencing and just do it anyways, this will at least let us know who we are dealing with. If they DO NOT tear down the fencing, we are good. If they DO tear it down, nothing short of 24 hr armed guards willing to shoot will stop them and we'd have to take a different approach than reseeding and transplanting. "Spike strips maybe"

Edit: I'm willing to put a few months of regular visits to conduct watering of the reseeded/transplanted area to get the plants established.
 

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I spent a lot of time cruising all around big bear and arrowhead, and I am sad to say that most areas that are flat enough for someone to take a motorcycle or 4x4 on usually had a wire fence held up with tee posts, and you can see the scars from previous hill climbs. I have been riding street legal off road motorcycles for over 18 years and I am willing to bet money that motorcyclists will always look for a way to climb up Luna Mountain, and the only way to prevent that in the short term is with fencing.

I hiked up a portion of Luna on Sunday and the motorcycle trail continues to a higher peak on the right, but it does not appear to connect with other trails, which is a good thing.

I am all for reestablishing the landscape as a long term solution, but I believe it will take several years before bikers actually try to avoid running it over. I saw several vehicles on our trail and about 5 motorcycles that are likely locals. Believe me, I do not want to see fencing along our trail, but I know the mentality.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Good thoughts Steven and John. I really do appreciate the efforts in regular surveillance of the area. Anyone else? Let's brainstorm. There is no wrong answer, just the killer silence.
 

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if someone has a pickup with a bed they're willing to get beaten up, or an utility trailer, it will definitely come in handy. i can see us needing to make runs to other trails in the general vicinity for natural/native resources such as logs, rocks, etc.

i forgot to ask greg, but it would be interesting and good to know how the previous adopters of 3N59A had taken care of the trail. obviously, back when they had more members cause it's been in relative neglect for the past few years.
 

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I will be using my 92 pickup from now on so the bed on that is open for use.

As far as trail repair I say forget the the orange tape and go straight for larger rocks and logs when ever possible to block the trail or fence post at every 5' with the post painted orange with signs on them. Maybe even reuse the barb wire that is on the trail in some of the areas we are fencing / blocking off.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=92063-80032-UPL04&lpage=none These are cheap and easy to install and hard to remove I say there perfect for the job. We will just need to get a fence post driver.

If we ask nice we might be able to get Jason Demello to make us one from the scraps in the shop. :)
 

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Josh, I agree with the post driver and tee post method. Some of the areas are so flat, I do not see how we can get enough rocks and logs to block them without disruptiung other areas.

Per the Ranger, we are NOT using barbed wire. We may be using wire without the barbs.
I have a post driver at home too, but I am sure Jason's would be way cooler. 8)
 

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I'm concerned that we put forth a super planned weekend or two to do some extensive single track blockage using massive boulders, downed trees, etc... only to find that new trails are being created right to either side of the now corrected trail. I have nothing against hard work, I can stand to lose a few pounds and as you'll soon find out, I will be the one saying c'mon guys, let's work through the night, I sleep a little and work a lot, I enjoy that. My problem is that we work our butts off thinking "Ah, that'll stop em" only to find they just go around. The amount of boulders, natural depris and such would be a tremendous amount of work for little payout. Motorcycle tires are skinny and I don't think it's all that hard to just steer around a boulder. I think as far as the boulder/natural debris goes, we just grab a few items that are immediately to either side of the trails and use that. This is natural as this is what was there originally. If we go and start bringing in things from other trails or areas of the national forest, are we really keeping it natural then? I like the idea of using styles for trails that should be there such as hiking/equestrian, etc... I agree with the fencing solution and the only reason I mentioned the Orange Construction Fencing is that it's cheap, fairly strong, easy to install and sends a clear message.

Here is an example of the fencing I was referring to: http://www.cepsorbents.com/proddetail.asp?prod=FENCING-100
 

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On the scenic group tour, we went by Pine Flats Campground. There are some large flat areas there, that they wanted to keep people from parking in, or trying to camp. They had boulders, about 3-4 feet in diameter, as a fence type perimeter. When it is an obvious 'fence', but still natural elements, the message is just as clear.

I believe the number of trail blazers is pretty small. The number of trail followers is larger. If we can hide the illegal trails from the followers, we'll have done a great service. You'll never stop the trail blazers, well, not legally anyway.

The luna mountain piece is going to be exceptionally difficult. On the lower, flat sections, you simply hide the entrance, and it's all good. On luna mountain, they can see the trail up the face of the mountain. That is going to be the hard part to hide/cover. And, it needs to be done at the same time as when the entrance(s) blocked or hidden.
 

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Another option on luna mountain is to dig, instead of build or cover. In other words, dig one or more HUGE ruts that make getting up impossible (or suicidal).

One more option would be to add some material to the surface near the bottom that makes getting up much more difficult. They can climb up on dirt, but what about a wide section of loose gravel?


Trying to keep the discussion going, and prevent any "killer silence". ;D
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The ranger has a lot of stuff that we can use. If they don't have it, they'll buy it so I don't think materials will be an issue. Piper, I share your concerns about bikers creating new trails. I think we should put up some sign that threat prosecution, add some mild obstacles, and sit and watch how much of an deterrant it is. It can take some time before people get use to the idea that this is NOT A TRAIL. The reason for mild obstacles is so that they won't create new trails. As people get use to the idea that it's not a trail, maybe we can start to add more deterrants and maybe start the reseeding process. But I think we need some serious signage. I'm not opposed to make them somewhat ostentatious for the time being.

Keep the ideas coming folks. Looking good!

FJ-Piper said:
I'm concerned that we put forth a super planned weekend or two to do some extensive single track blockage using massive boulders, downed trees, etc... only to find that new trails are being created right to either side of the now corrected trail. I have nothing against hard work, I can stand to lose a few pounds and as you'll soon find out, I will be the one saying c'mon guys, let's work through the night, I sleep a little and work a lot, I enjoy that. My problem is that we work our butts off thinking "Ah, that'll stop em" only to find they just go around. The amount of boulders, natural depris and such would be a tremendous amount of work for little payout. Motorcycle tires are skinny and I don't think it's all that hard to just steer around a boulder. I think as far as the boulder/natural debris goes, we just grab a few items that are immediately to either side of the trails and use that. This is natural as this is what was there originally. If we go and start bringing in things from other trails or areas of the national forest, are we really keeping it natural then? I like the idea of using styles for trails that should be there such as hiking/equestrian, etc... I agree with the fencing solution and the only reason I mentioned the Orange Construction Fencing is that it's cheap, fairly strong, easy to install and sends a clear message.

Here is an example of the fencing I was referring to: http://www.cepsorbents.com/proddetail.asp?prod=FENCING-100
 

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Fjamming said:
Btw, we're suppose to have 2 kiosks. I know one is near the nudie spring. Where is the other one?
Look through the pictures in my link 2nd post in this thread. One has NO Campfires on it and the other is completely blank
 

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Landmine signs.

^ (not my idea)



(but this is)


Landmine Frisbee's: Spray paint 'em dark olive drab or black. put 'em under the dirt just enough to see...


Damn, that is a good idea. You know it is. Scaring the crud out of people is the only way to keep them off :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
CADavebert said:
It now has an official new name. ;D
You know it!

Piper, I saw the pic of the kiosk, but where is it at?

I'm going to email Greg and see what kind of language we can use in regards to signage
 

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Fjamming said:
You know it!

Piper, I saw the pic of the kiosk, but where is it at?

I'm going to email Greg and see what kind of language we can use in regards to signage
One is where people park for Deep Creek and the other is right as you enter the Nat Forest after BLM
 
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